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I already create a thread in the pc section but I guess noones very interested in it so atm I'll hold off on that.
As far as the programming section it seems like it's a regular case of people posting issues, help etc etc. However I want to get the communities insights on a project AndrewThomas and I have been discussing to see if anyone is interested in it.
1. Open Source Anti Anti-Cheat (bypassable multicheat)
- Open source will allow the user\s to easily update it on demand. Yes it will be easy to patch for AC's such as PB, but with it being Open Source and the size of the community and number of knowledgeable coders we have I think it would be a cool feature to consider. Even if it is detected, I think it would be a great way to learn new things such as different injection methods, ways of hooking\detouring functions etc etc.. Perhaps even obfuscation so it would be harder to understand.
2. Virus Debugging
-I'm not sure if that is the best description but basically what it consists of is a group of individuals that would work as a team. We would be working in Virtual Environments and internally debugging and looking at how certain virii work. Our mission is to take a few virii\malware and investigate the structure and the way it works. Personally I look forward to this ALOT. I think it could take the best of both categories (PC & Programming) to make this possible. Most of us know what the virus does to our systems, but the goal of this project is to see what we can do to basically stop it. I guess it's like making a custom Anti virus\malware program.
Any individual that participates in this needs to be aware that they could potentially get infected if they don't follow certain guidelines. We plan on warning the user with a messagebox to make sure they are aware of any consequences they could potentially get into. Offcourse the beauty of running a virtual environment is that your OS won't get infected and your virtual Machine will have an option to roll back to the last snapshot before it got infected.
We will study the registry, Windows API's and other things.
So far those are 2 ideas we had if any of you have any other project ideas feel free to share. Anyone that is interested in 1 or both of the above let us know on here as well so that we can get started on it.
If we get more ideas at the end of the following week we will hold a poll on which ones most of us agree on.
AndrewThomas if you have anything to add feel free to do so!
Roster:
Open Source Anti Anti-Cheat ReUnioN
crazyninja
Krtek AndrewThomas
FlyOrDie
raiders
m0d hipp„
johnnydaking
haha trust me, if anyone lacks in anything programming wise it's me haha. I have knowledge with the virus debugging related program when it comes to understanding what & where to look for in a system, but as far as internally debugging it would be a entire learning experience for me.
The point of these projects is to learn something and have some motivation in trying something different, I don't see any issues with having you part of the project Krtek. I'm sure you'll be far from a pain for us.
1. Open Source Anti Anti-Cheat (bypassable multicheat)
- Open source will allow the user\s to easily update it on demand. Yes it will be easy to patch for AC's such as PB, but with it being Open Source and the size of the community and number of knowledgeable coders we have I think it would be a cool feature to consider. Even if it is detected, I think it would be a great way to learn new things such as different injection methods, ways of hooking\detouring functions etc etc.. Perhaps even obfuscation so it would be harder to understand.
This is a very nice idea, but takes a lot of work but it requires the community to contribute against the constant 'reinventing of the wheel' path which anti-cheats follow. I am currently in the jist of developing a hack which can be applied to any punkbuster game but only works with simple pokes (for the mean time). The cheat will work externally, interpreting scripts for different games (XML based I would imagine). Perhaps this approach could be used more universally for any ac and any game.
Vac/Vac2 is much simpler to bypass I believe. I have been told you can simply rewrite parts of the PE information such as the import address table and export address table to obtain your desired results (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/X86_Dis...ecutable_Files explains the PE format) ...
So the question still exists, do we have anyone that is interested in any of the 2 above projects? I assume Krtek is interested, and I know both AndrewThomas & I would be interested in them, do we have any other volunteers? I suppose we could make this a 3 person project for starters, but I'm hoping I can get more participation. After all we have alot of programmers on here.
QuickTime, I know it would be hard and would most likely need to be updated regularly, but the point of this isn't just to make it bypassable, but also learn from it so I would like anyone that would like to learn (and actually try to learn) to be interested in participating in these projects so that perhaps they can get some motivation for doing other projects of their own.
I'm always interested... but i'm no pro at any of this. I would be happy to contribute what i can to either project although i have no experience what so ever with #2.
So the question still exists, do we have anyone that is interested in any of the 2 above projects? I assume Krtek is interested, and I know both AndrewThomas & I would be interested in them, do we have any other volunteers? I suppose we could make this a 3 person project for starters, but I'm hoping I can get more participation. After all we have alot of programmers on here.
Hey,
I am interested too. Drop me a line on msn, I have a few idea's for this project. I will get round to creating something in the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0d hipp„
QuickTime, I know it would be hard and would most likely need to be updated regularly, but the point of this isn't just to make it bypassable, but also learn from it so I would like anyone that would like to learn (and actually try to learn) to be interested in participating in these projects so that perhaps they can get some motivation for doing other projects of their own.
On that note, then yes, I am more than interested. One of the problems with the scene is having to dig through old information to see whats working, what isn't working, and what once worked. Perhaps this project would shed some light on the anti-cheat, which has been lacking lately.
OK 2 more members awesome, and crazyninja, I got your PM, if you want I can go ahead and notify all te users about your idea once we get this idea rolling.
That makes 5 of us. I know most of you are vouching for the AC bypass, which is fine, what about the debugging of virii. Like I said before I personally would be interested in that as well.
OK 2 more members awesome, and crazyninja, I got your PM, if you want I can go ahead and notify all te users about your idea once we get this idea rolling.
That makes 5 of us. I know most of you are vouching for the AC bypass, which is fine, what about the debugging of virii. Like I said before I personally would be interested in that as well.
I would be interested in both projects, more on the debugging of not only virus programs but expanding my knowledge of assembly in general. There more chances for success when you aren't dealing with a constantly updated program such as an antivirus, especially when the project will be open source.
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[22:22] monster64: yo dawg i heard u like chams so i put chams in your chams so you can see through shit while you see through shit
[09:07] Tally: grab your ak47 and put on your bomb jacket.... its gonna be a long morning
Now i know discussion of creating an Anti Cheat was just brushed off, and Yes, it would be a bit ironic for hackers to be coding an Anti-Cheat (Except 85% of Anti Cheats available at the moment are developed by people who have hacked, if not more).
However think of it from this perspective. If the Anti Cheat is open source the users can get a great insight on how the Anti Cheat works and then have a far greater understanding on how to bypass them.
For example if you create a basic D3D hook, and then have the community discuss and work out how an Anti Cheat would detect the D3D hook the user can have a great understanding on how other Anti cheats would go about the same way to detect the D3D Hook, and then the users can go away and see how would go about bypassing the anti cheat (by knowing how it works).
Turv, excellent post, and I have absolutely no complaints against that, but perhaps we can get an approval from one of the admins on that. I agree and as I mentioned in another post I think it's a great way to learn from and not be biased on one side.
Yes this is a cheating forum & I completely understand that, but as mentioned by Turv it's important to be able to understand how both sides work and not just 1. I think making a fix is harder than exploiting it. The only issue with an Open Source AC that was brought up before was that if our AC turns out to be better than PB, I have no doubt they will try to replicate our system haha, but I guess if that were to happen, since we would be the original creators it should be fairly simple to figure out how to bypass again haha.
gellin08, which project are you interested in? Or are you interested in both?
Turv, excellent post, and I have absolutely no complaints against that, but perhaps we can get an approval from one of the admins on that. I agree and as I mentioned in another post I think it's a great way to learn from and not be biased on one side.
Yes this is a cheating forum & I completely understand that, but as mentioned by Turv it's important to be able to understand how both sides work and not just 1. I think making a fix is harder than exploiting it. The only issue with an Open Source AC that was brought up before was that if our AC turns out to be better than PB, I have no doubt they will try to replicate our system haha, but I guess if that were to happen, since we would be the original creators it should be fairly simple to figure out how to bypass again haha.
gellin08, which project are you interested in? Or are you interested in both?
Yeah - I don't see how the 'Anti Anti-cheat' could work, Since should you manage to bypass say PB, since it is open source it would stay undetected for less time than a public hack would be for (Since the source is freely available).
Now, I can see the appeal and how it would help users by openly discussing how to bypass PB, but the people with the knowledge to share would not share everything as otherwise their methods would become public knowledge and detected, so it would turn into exactly what the AC section is now with discussion but no actual code (Or if someone is generous enough to post an undetected method - Yes, people will learn, but it would be detected within a matter of days and people are stuck back at stage 1).
However, to go back to my post about developing an actual Anti-cheat that would require community involvement, there wouldn't be just one person doing the work (like coding a hook is generally done by one person, it doesn't require a community of people).
It would require planning, detailed discussions on how current Anti Cheats such as PB work, their detection methods, which will give a detailed insight into both how current anti-cheats work along with a source code of a working anti-cheat to watch, and see how one works in a live situation.
Then as you have discussions on how to DETECT a hack, you have other discussions on how to BYPASS the Anti-Cheat they have just helped developed by discovering new methods and techniques that can then be applied into 'real-life' situations.
I also don't think that PB would be interested in 'borrowing' code from an Anti-cheat developed by an open source community.
I see far, far more positives from developing an Anti-Cheat than attempted to develop an 'Anti Anti-Cheat' as you get the best of both worlds, How to detect hacks, and how to bypass them.
Despite this being a hacking forum, i reckon there would be huge interest far more people interested in helping develop an Anti-cheat for the knowledge and experience
I'm not disagreeing with you, and you state some very valid points, I just don't think the admins will budge for it just because this is a hacking forum. That 1 reason, I have a feeling, they will stick with other than that I think you're correct.
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Sounds interesting
