Firewalls are pointless

DeepBlueSea · 09-04-2010, 03:11 AM

Firewalls are pointless. Every port is closed by default. Unless a software listens on it or sends data on it.

You want a port to be opened or closed? Well than run or kill the software responsible. *duhhh* ... morons.

**Quicktime** · 09-04-2010, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepBlueSea

Firewalls are pointless. Every port is closed by default. Unless a software listens on it or sends data on it.

You want a port to be opened or closed? Well than run or kill the software responsible. *duhhh* ... morons.

Hey,

Firewalls have a very good purpose and a necessary part of a healthy network infrastructure. You are 100% troll. iptables forever.

Regards,

- Quicktime

DeepBlueSea · 09-04-2010, 05:09 AM

I'm sorry. Firewalls are useless for "healthyness". It could be useful to forbid certain communication or to seperate different networks in some way.

But firewalls do not in any way protect from infection or being hacked or anything. Seriously...

If there is a service running on your local computer, which listens on a port. And you don't want that port to be open (hence not wanting that service to run at all).
What would you do?
A) Filter that port with a firewall and leave the service running.
B) Stop the service.

What's your choice? :P

**Quicktime** · 09-04-2010, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepBlueSea

...

Hey,

I'm sorry but you slated firewalls which covers a wide range of things...

Here is a feature list of my router/firewall, I don't think you can slate them in a single sentence like that...

Features List - PFSenseDocs

Also, my firewall can prevent attacks and infection, by not letting me get infected in the first place!

http://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Category:Packages ...

Regards

DeepBlueSea · 09-04-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicktime

Here is a feature list of my router/firewall, I don't think you can slate them in a single sentence like that...

Features List - PFSenseDocs

Hey. I didn't know that Firewalls had so many features.
Cross out the first useless feature of that list. The rest is pretty usable.

**zoomgod** · 09-04-2010, 07:40 PM

PC firewalls are pointless and you can't trust netstat since rootkits can alter the connection table to hide connections just as they hide their processes.

Router based are a different story though but still only as good as the person configuring it.

DeepBlueSea · 09-04-2010, 08:23 PM

Still, if your software is correctly configured, you don't need any firewall.
Responsible and knowledgable users don't need firewalls.

**disavow** · 09-04-2010, 08:55 PM

Same as anti virus software, I think it should be used by those who can't do it manually.
For the rest of us, our minds will do.

**skyskrutch** · 09-05-2010, 09:47 PM

nah they arent
do you think everyone born knowing all of the world of internets and all?

**Roverturbo** · 09-05-2010, 10:22 PM

Hardware firewall or GTFO.

**disavow** · 09-06-2010, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverturbo

Hardware firewall or GTFO.

As standard with pretty much any router anyways

**CallMeEclipse** · 09-06-2010, 03:02 AM

I have a router with a built in firewall. It disallows access on certain ports unless i specify (means, no internet programs will function unless I allow it.

**Roverturbo** · 09-06-2010, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shad0w_

As standard with pretty much any router anyways

My point.

DeepBlueSea · 09-06-2010, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeEclipse

I have a router with a built in firewall. It disallows access on certain ports unless i specify (means, no internet programs will function unless I allow it.

But exactly this is retarded.
First of all you have to go through the trouble allowing it for every software you want to install and use.
Secondly Malware is well aware of port filtering, thus blending in with browser traffic most of the time.

So why port control? Why not controlling the very software you are using on your system.
Even if you successfully blocked any malware from communication you are still infected, which is an undesirable situation anyways.
And being already at this point, you did something horribly wrong letting any kind of software you don't fully trust running with so much rights.

Moreover if you want to block normal software from just phoning home, consider following:
A) Do i even want this kind of software, which doesn't let me configure internet communication?
B) Why not using Software Restriction Policies [1], effectively regulating software rights and access.

So instead of constantly letting software sending packets against a wall, where the traffic is dropped anyways. Just not let the software send anything at all in the first place.

The conclusion is: Firewalls are pointless if you know what you do. Same with Antivirus Software or any other HIDS/HIPS for that matter.

[1] Using Software Restriction Policies to Protect Against Unauthorized Software

**disavow** · 09-06-2010, 04:02 PM

Ha, today on my first day of collage my first assignment of the year is in a unit called "organisations systems security".
In fact one topic I will have to right about in a lot of detail is firewalls, there purpose and how would one go about firewalling a small bussiness if one was a technician for that bussiness.
This post is extreamly relevant and any more post's like your last I will take on board for my research.

Thanks.

DeepBlueSea · 09-06-2010, 05:38 PM

Except my post is relevant for personal use, not company use.

**disavow** · 09-06-2010, 07:08 PM

My user research section could include why people at home use certain software.
Would you say a firewall is more essentail for a small bussiness?

DeepBlueSea · 09-06-2010, 09:12 PM

Yes. Because an external firewall in a small business is the only way to permit or allow the Users in the internal network from using or providing services from or to the internet.

Whereas a home user can do what the fuck he wants with his internet. Why would he forbid himself to certain services only to allow it again some time later, when he needs it.